• Adam Conner

Sunwink | Jordan Schenck: "Wellness" Overload


This is the Authentic Avenue podcast episode featuring Dana Marineau, Chief Marketing Officer of Rakuten, with host Adam Conner.


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Here's a story about lightning in a bottle...in a bottle.


Today we explore Sunwink through the eyes of their Co-Founder and Chief Marketing Officer, Jordan Schenck. Jordan's a celebrated marketer in the plant-based world, having previously been Head of Consumer Marketing for Impossible Foods. She was also recently named to the Forbes CMO Next 2021 list.


Sunwink is a consumer brand producing "super clean plant powered Sparkling Tonics and Superfood Powders for everyday wellness."


Wellness. That's a word I've heard more than almost every word in the brand world over the last year. I get it. Pandemic, stress, depression. Anyone who can front as a wellness brand immediately captures some value, right?


Maybe. Maybe not. Actually these days when I hear the word wellness I think either 1) it's marketing buzzwords meant to drive a sale regardless of truth, or 2) it actually makes me feel "unwell."


Sunwink has a recent campaign and study recognizing this and seeking to clear up what wellness truly means. Today, we chat about that plus Jordan's unique perspective as someone with the responsibility of innovative marketing while staying lean as a founder.


Enjoy! Full transcript below.


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FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW: (powered by AI; 100% accuracy not guaranteed; provided by Descript)


Adam Conner: [00:00:00] On today's show the story of a founder and CMO attempting to catch lightning in a bottle in a bottle. What's that mean? What are you going to have to tune in to this Authentic Avenue?

Sunwink: a brand pushing plant power, encouraging you to eat well, drink well and feel well. And today among with Jordan Schenck, their co-founder and COO, and we tackle that word well and wellness. Centrally in this show specifically around some communication, her brand has recently been doing around demystifying.

The space I use, you can understand this word has become awfully cluttered in the past year. And Jordan helps us to clear that up just a little bit. And of course, we also talk about how that ties to the central a word, including how not to compromise on certain elements of the business and how you build it.

Even if it means a little bit of sacrifice, it is often the hardest choices that produce the highest return. And we get a little bit of that during the advice column, but I really liked this show. I like how Jordan thinks and it's made me think more about how I can get. Plant powered and make plants the plan, as she said, maybe you will too for now.

I'll get out of the way and let you hear it. Sit back, relax and enjoy. As I get real with Sunwink and Jordan Schenck. Jordan, how are you? Thanks for joining me.

Jordan Schenck: [00:01:26] Thanks for having me, Adam.

Adam Conner: [00:01:27] I want to learn about this story because while Sunwink is your passion and something that you founded. You've been in this game a little bit, rather this broader category and in that, in plant-based nutrition.

So I got, I want to know the founding story. That's how I tend to ask people who have founded their own thing. What, what, what drove you to do it? And I guess I'll make a separate question or maybe one that's linked. Was it a desire to extend what you had already been doing in plant-based nutrition broadly within that category?

Or was it just something else that happened to coincide that inspired you to make this happen? So

Jordan Schenck: [00:02:02] I guess just starting with my own personal story within this space of, I would call it plant based plant powered foods. Um, I think definitely my. I would say just personal mission really came to rise at my time at impossible foods.

Um, you know, and going through the experience of sort of, you know, we were almost like the, the call it like the shot heard around the world when the product launched as far as really galvanizing, galvanizing this movement. Um, and showing consumers that. At least the realm within plant-based, um, was sort of taking, you know, leaps and bounds from, from where it was, especially within those refrigerated aisles or kind of call it like the crushed up veggie burgers of the world.

Um, and I think, you know, in that space, a lot of the mission that we were following was always the mission of how do you create products that, you know, bring people closer back to more sustainable means of eating. Just by way of what, you know, climate impact look like from an animal farming standpoint.

Um, but what I was able to see as I was sort of traveling all over the country and the world, you know, convincing people to eat this entirely sort of in their minds, novel product, but really from a chemistry standpoint, no different than, um, the food was that this sort of collective consciousness around.

Um, plants. And what plants could do for you, whether that was in the space of like hardcore tech, like that, of the impossibles, um, all the way through to the space of, you know, what functional foods started to look like. Um, and I was seeing that trend rise really quickly, but you weren't really seeing anyone sort of like jump in to like galvanize and sort of like create space for the movement around like what it meant to be like plant powered in addition to being plant-based.

So that. Was in my journey of impossible, you know, what really sort of set my path almost like in, you know, that inflection point where I had done so much work telling the story of, you know, plants as technology that I started to see this world opening for sort of plants as plants and plants in the space of efficacy, starting to grow as well. Um,

Adam Conner: [00:04:33] "Plants as plans." I like that.

Jordan Schenck: [00:04:35] Yeah. I mean, I think it's. It's, you know, the sort of like movement that's happening. And I think it's just sort of one ball of a movement, which is just human, like human beings as a whole reconnecting with the earth in a very new way. Um, I think technology obviously allows you to do it in a way, like the impossible foods or the justice of the world.

Um, all the way through to, you know, with the technology we have from a media and information standpoint, people being able to learn more about. Different ways and call it different remedies from all over the world that they can engage with for their own personal health journeys. And that like these two things are sort of happening at once.

So while it's like technology has obviously grown and is much more pervasive, it's also impacting the food space in such a unique way. Um, in a unique way from like brands should be mission forward, but brands also have to be radically transparent and there also has to be some form of like, You know, call it like a circular relationship with like how sustainability is approached and everything.

So, um, that was, that was what peaked my interest. Also, just like, as a, as a marketer, you get hungry to tell different types of stories and think about different problems in different ways. I met my co-founder Eliza. Um, Just sort of at the tail end of my time at impossible. And she had, you know, she had told me her story after having been diagnosed with an auto-immune disease and actually, you know, using plant medicine or plants as medicine to really start addressing the root cause of what was making her auto-immune disease.

So unbearable and sort of her daily life. And I found that, you know, just to be really inspirational, I really. Sort of honest and authentic way as many founders do sort of approach a problem. And I had known that like, I would be traveling to Cleveland, Ohio in places where like investors would tell us nobody would care about plant-based foods and there would be lines down the block, you know, blocks and blocks and blocks to just try the product.

But in that line, I'd have. You know, people who were 65 plus some men talking about tumeric supplements. Like I don't take Advil anymore. Like I take tumeric and you're like, this isn't like a trend to be overlooked. You know, you, can't just, it's not just like a coast to coast sort of trend that's happening.

It's a consciousness. That's. That's um, rising everywhere, and we're really underestimating consumers for what, you know, what types of products they're looking for and the expectations they have on company. So her and I sort of joined forces. Um, we went after the first and honestly, most difficult, one of the most difficult spaces in food, which was beverage.

The reason why was that we knew, um, we wanted to create products that had a lot of frequency and a really important thing with like the engagement of like plants and functional. Medicine is really just like that consciousness and frequency at which you engage with. It is like, you know, the average American drinks, like over two and a half things that aren't water daily.

Like there isn't really any other products that like you can, like, you're not eating two and a half burgers daily. Um, so like the ability to really engage with people from like a whole, like call it a whole. Like any meal at any point any day, and even in like cocktail or mocktail, we just had so much space to create this, this engagement that we went into the realm of beverage first.

And obviously there's the exciting things in beverage where you're like you're taking on big soda and like creating products that actually like have lower sugar. And you're sort of going after this like really interesting space in the grocery store. Um, so yeah, that's, I mean, I guess that's sort of this, the story of it.

Adam Conner: [00:08:19] Okay. So to summarize, you are at impossible foods that was like catching lightning in a bottle. Perfect moment exploded. Then you decided, well, are you going to go ahead and put lightening in your own bottle? And you came out and brought Sunwinked to market and you are on the founding team and the CML, I have had one other, I think maybe two.

Times when I can talk to somebody who is the founder and the chief marketing officer specifically, I want to get your thoughts or your perspective on what I perceived to be. And I'm outside of the Sunlink bubble, but I perceived to be too traditionally at odds functions or mentalities, one being we got to go to market.

We got to have, we got to have really slick, like. As the marketer, we gotta have really slick messaging and branding. We gotta make it look great. And it does, it looks beautiful. And then there's that startup mind, which is like, we got to stay lean sometimes. And I've seen it even in bigger companies, those run a ground of each other.

How the heck do you bounce? I'm guessing Eliza has a lot to do with this, but she has a little bit marketing experience in her background too. I'd be curious to know how you balance that. Um, as somebody who is like the arbiter of the brand, but also the arbiter of the business too.

Jordan Schenck: [00:09:36] Yeah, I think, you know, I actually think the, the marketing side of my experiences is.

Without a doubt to our advantage. And I think it's because it allows us as at a certain level to, you know, remain lean. I have quite a bit of experience, you know, working with everything from, you know, your call it, your established conventionals all the way through to growing and scaling a startup. So it gives me the ability as a marketer to operate at many levels.

Um, And I've also, you know, I came at it from a consultant as well. So I've worked on, you know, really in-depth innovation change management at an organization. Um, I've had a lot of experience in sort of different areas of the call, it the realm of marketing, but I would look at it more. I think it's interesting.

Cause like marketing means so many things in this day and age, but like my, you know, like my role at sudden wink is in one day it's overseeing brand and another, you know, another day I'm also overseeing our D to C business and our e-commerce business. I'm also overseeing innovation. Like there's a lot of different facets at which I engage.

And at the same time thinking through like, you know, Programming that's, you know, looking at the bottom line and how the margins operate. And I think the advantage of me having such a big marketing background is that the stuff you're talking about with just like the beauty, the sensory experiences, like that's the stuff I can do in my sleep.

Um, which is oftentimes really hard. Yeah. Been through it before. So again, like where my strongest, strongest strengths are, it doesn't require a large team to do it. Um, and I also have like the network to be able to pull really amazing folks in to help build it. Um, and then Eliza and I compliment each other really well.

I mean, Eliza is, you know, I would say her. You know, strongest experience actually came from that of like McMaster-Carr where she was working on more so along the lines of like supply chain management and, you know, selling really, really complicated, giant, nuts, and bolts for different types of like, you know, big construction type things.

And she's, you know, very much so from the operations mindset and like, that's really complimentary because we, we. Don't have the same strengths, but we have enough understanding of, um, sort of the other aspects of each role to really respect what the other is doing. But it allows us to move really quick.

Adam Conner: [00:12:13] It's a good symbiosis to have you have people who have certain specialties and, and, and, and yes, no, it it's. It's obvious. You'd go to, to either of your LinkedIn pages, it's a click away and you can see like, okay, well, well Jordan knows what the heck she's doing. Right. She came from, I have not heard of this and I don't know why, but I have not heard of a single agency that gets more.

Buzz amongst the folks that I talk about then Weiden and Kennedy. I know you had just a year there, but then 21st century brand, I mean, there was, there was, there was also a time where I was just hearing Jonathan Milton hell's name again and again and again. And, um, and you, you need, you, you need only look at the other brands that you've, that you've thought about in your history.

Be like, okay, I'm sure. You know, it's great that you can do it in your sleep. It's also great that you have a counterpart who has other experience, so that's very good. Um, and I'm sure compliments you both well, and that's handy when together you're trying to carve this authentic path and. I got to now ask about the most recent manifestation of that at least is that I can say that's been turned outward, uh, which is this, uh, when wellness feels impossible now, I, I, I feel like we're gonna talk about a couple of things here, because I love having conversations where we sort of like, not really expose them, but sort of like blow up in a, a trend or a term or something, which is like maybe a little tired or not totally true.

Actually, I did this in the beverage space on this very show, like. I don't know, probably 30, 40 episodes ago in the, in the tequila seltzer space company called volley. And we just tore apart the idea of what natural flavors was. Cause it's kind of a sham. Uh, talk to me about what you guys are approaching here, especially around the word wellness.

I'd be curious to know.

Jordan Schenck: [00:13:47] Yeah. I mean, I think for us, there's a lot of like philosophical conversations that not only like me and Eliza have, but the company has around like what, like what that term means. And then what that. You know, what is the role that we play within the industry or call it within the space to which we ultimately set.

Like we say, we're a plant powered wellness company. We have our, you know, tonic product. We have a powder product. I'm sure we'll have a whole realm of new products that come out that really, you know, leverage, um, the efficacy of plants. But. At the end of the day, we play in a space with products that whose ultimate goal is to make people feel well.

And whether that's, you know, physically, emotionally, they find a community within the brand that they identify with, um, or from a give back level, or even how we behave as a corporation. Like we think about that really holistically. And in doing that, that means that we in the very early days as a brand have held ourselves.

Sort of accountable to like what our checks and balances are, whether that's our impact reporting or, um, you know, the work that we're going through right now to have our B Corp cert, we also went ahead and like just started like generally serving people around like, Um, you know, how does wellness make you feel?

How does like the industry make you feel in regards to who you see in the industry? Like, do you believe in it? And like, we just launched a study to interrogate that. And that's probably a bit of like founder curiosity, and honestly, a bit of like my stylings from coming from the widens and 21 CVS of the world, which is to like the only way to create brown breaking, breaking work and brands is to really sort of understand the root of something that's going on.

Um, and so like, what we discovered was like over three and five Americans are like completely overwhelmed by the health and wellness industry. Um, which is a pretty significant number, given that for like the first time in history, you know, stress sort of eclipsed, uh, weight as the number one health concern in Americans.

And we were like, okay, this is. This is odd because like there's more companies than ever, right? There's more content than ever. Stress is higher than it's ever been. And people are way more overwhelmed than they've ever been. As like an industry. We should be interrogating like what's going on. Not just like throwing sort of more wood into the fire or just another product, et cetera.

So. You know, we went and deployed that study. Um, and then we'll be releasing the sort of white paper on, you know, what we've learned and sort of how we're approaching it as an organization. Um, as well as a campaign, sort of reflecting that. And I think it's something we intend to do every year when we release our impact report is to just take a pulse check of where call it like consumerism, wellness, consumers, and at large stands and like put some fun creative out there and.

Kind of give us a pulse check on where we are as a business. But yeah. I mean, it was interesting, like you usually do those things and you don't expect people to be like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm, it's making me depressed. It's making me feel inadequate on something that has such like intention of being good and whole.

Absolutely. Um, yeah. And it's again like, and I'm sure you've seen this in talking to lots of call it different CMOs or brand people. Like you get those reports back and you're like, this is the strategic mode. This is what's going to make us like how we're going to push against it and how we're going to be different.

And just like philosophically, we couldn't stand there and be like, let's make people's confusion or anxiety, our strategic mode. Like let's actually open the workup and have a bigger calling into the industry around like, how are we all approaching this? And sort of, where are we falling short for people?

Adam Conner: [00:17:38] I'm glad that you're beginning to explore that with this study. I know this study wasn't done yesterday. I mean, you've been working at this for awhile. It's just now coming to market and being shown as public. And I have, I mean, God, over the last year or two wellness, wellness, wellness, and I've done it.

And the reason why I've I've even more than the CML is because I produce podcasts with chief people, officers separately from this, where that's all that's cared about, that that's done in partnership with, uh, with a wellness company I've done. Uh, you know, and I just, I just did my own study, which was not about, um, not about this specifically wellness, but to suggest that like everybody believes that their employees are completely zoomed out and that the culture is fragmented from a corporate structure.

I've seen it too, but. This is an interesting pursuit because it is one thing of course, to try and clarify things for a stressed out public. Even when you hear the word, cause it's like you almost to me, I hear the word wellness. And sometimes I almost feel like I'm not as well as I should be. And that it almost because of that makes me feel like I'm not well, and that's tough because it shouldn't be a dirty word or even a word that's a little taboo.

But there are so many solutions out there claiming we'd enhance your wellness. That there's, there's, there's obviously a line here to tell how do you, how do you plan to do it? Because going to market here and demystifying the world of wellness and saying, look, we're here to clear things up whilst also being another solution, you know, among many, many, that's how we enhance your wellness.

I mean, you look on the front page of the website, you know, it's what does it eat? Eat well, drink well feel well. Well, um, how do you marry those two? Because it's gotta be a thin line, right?

Jordan Schenck: [00:19:22] Yeah, I don't. And again, I don't think we, you know, this isn't coming in as a silver bullet solution. I think that there's, that there are many, and I do think the silver bullet solution is I would say a little bit more of a traditional way to look at, right?

Like, this is how, if I were X, Y, Z organization, I got this data point. Well, of course we would position as the solve to the reality. And that's, that's just a, that's just like, not. How we would want to behave and be like, that's how everyone has behaved, right? Like your stress, do this, your stress, be wellness, your stress, self care, your stress, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like that. That's sort of the angle that's been, I think what we probe out more so is behind the motivators of it. And then really thinking as an organization. Well, Outside of our marketing, what space can we own and what can we do? Um, and I think a lot of things we were already doing as an organization just intuitively, and this is why in the findings of the report, you know, we sort of lay out the case for here's the research, here's the data, here's the, you know, the commentary from consumers, but then also here's the impact reporting as an organization.

Like we look at it like, you know, all the way down to like, what's the composition of our. Board what's the composition of our employees from a diversity and inclusion standpoint. What types of organizations are we giving back to year over year? And how do we formulate the products in a way that is also addressing the communities at which it draws inspiration from or serves.

Um, and then how do we think about sort of planetary health and those elements? So we, we, more so layout or roadmap of the key business initiatives that drive forward, the mission, less of like, what are the key messaging and marketing initiatives, which I think is a very. In its own right. As it is, is a more modern way of looking at the solve.

And I think the way I would shine the light on it is like, if you're a wellness organization, are you thinking about diversity and inclusion? Not only in your marketing assets, but in who you hire to do the work, or like if you're a wellness organization, what's the composition of your board, does it represent the communities you serve?

Like is their wellness manifesting in how the people show up there? Um, if you're a wellness or health organization, like. Is there, are there plastics in your supply chain? Is there waste in your supply chain? Have you gone out and interrogated that it's much more of a values and business exercise, less of a marketing exercise.

And I think that, and this is probably going back to my work that I did with Jonathan. Like that is where like the heart of great marketing comes from is like marketing. Isn't this sort of like ancillary department pumping, advertising, like it is the heartbeat of an organization driving. Through those values and very creative ways that the business can, can ultimately create wonderful products.

And then wonderful enterprises.

Adam Conner: [00:22:18] I always ask folks who come on the show, this it's, it's the advice column, really? Because the folks that listen in to this show, there's a heck of a lot of marketing leaders, a lot of founders, too, a lot of people who have been on this show before, continue to tune in just to get other people's perspective and some of the audience while not maybe having appeared on the show, of course are brand builders in and of themselves.

Perhaps they're founding something in plant-based nutrition. I don't know, regardless, they're emulating the journeys like yours, of those who appear in there looking themselves about how to build authentic journeys and craft, Authentic Avenues. It's clear that you've done that and that you will continue to do that.

And then you've had a heck of a great rapport with, with brands and mentors in order to build it. So I must ask, as we close, what advice would you give to others who are seeking to carve their own avenues to authenticity? Having been down this journey yourself and having learned for some, from some pretty incredible brands and people.

Jordan Schenck: [00:23:12] There's two things to it. Like I always, you know, I do anything that makes me personally feel uncomfortable. I think like if I think if it was Sunwink and how we've, you know, tackled this sort of white paper in this. Campaign that's coming out. It, it definitely sets a high bar that we have to live up to as an organization. And that is often a really scary feeling because whenever you pull off something in the world, you want it to feel, you know, incredibly buttoned up incredibly de-risked and it's anything but that.

And I think, you know, a lot of my training and places I've worked have always been about, you know, taking. Taking the risk and drawing the line as far as where you stand. And that's, you know, obviously the work that comes out of widen, um, you know, it's the work that Jonathan has done historically. And I, I, I've been trained to think that way.

Um, you know, when, if there's always some, you know, some strong sort of payoff or call it movement from a business or a brand standpoint. Um, and so that would be. That would be sort of the first path of onto authenticity, I guess. Um, I mean, authenticity has, it's just such a, I mean, it's such a tough word to like unpack a little bit, cause it almost feels like --

Adam Conner: [00:24:30] Yeah, it's huge. I could like write a whole dictionary for the one word itself.

Jordan Schenck: [00:24:35] But we're, you know, I think you, I mean, you have to make, if you're founding a company, especially, and I would even say. When you're building the brand, like the sea hard path has the highest payoff in the long run. And it's tough.

Like when I think back to impossible, we took an incredibly methodical approach to building credibility and it required us focusing and narrowing our scope of not only places where the product. Was served initially, but who we worked with, um, which were solely meeting chefs in, you know, high credible burger chains.

And the objective of that was to really galvanize and create that flywheel effect, which took time. It took time from a research standpoint and it took time from a call. It. Not, I don't call it slower to market, but more methodical to market approach. And for Sunwing, we've definitely like on that direction as well.

I think we've gone that direction with every aspect of how we fundraise the business to the choices we've made from a product innovation standpoint. You know, we, we knew early on that we would be ruthless about the ingredients it's and it's why the product is. Pretty darn near close to what you could just make in your fridge, but with, um, you know, really lovely recipes that kind of bring it to market.

And, you know, we didn't, you made the point of natural flavors, like natural flavors and artificial flavors, not including them, or like no brainers, same thing with citric acid, everything had to be organic and we just dug our heels into it. No matter like what someone said or the path to market, we go back and forth all the time with like, Do we glass do, we can, we'll never plastic.

Like we make these decisions around like how it's even packaged that it's just slower and, and same thing on the brand building, you know, it's, we've really focused on building the brand from a space of, you know, welcoming people into wellness and health that haven't had a space to be welcomed in before, which.

It's a much slower relationship building process because you're working with new audiences or folks who probably for the first time are seeing a brand that's like on their side, um, which now it's starting to grow and, and really move. But it's not the stuff that's like the fast wins in the early days.

It takes time and focus and a lot of listening. And then a lot of like ignoring. Sure. The founders of the company. So,

Adam Conner: [00:27:24] Yeah. And that'll come with scale to like my get my guess is that your growth growth trajectory is just beginning. Obviously this is your guest as well. My guess is also that at some point, look, at some point, you're going to have some big CPG investors want to come in and dump a boatload of money into their business.

And they're going to say, why, why don't you plastic? You know how much more you can save per unit. You make so much money and you're going to have to, well, the decision will come right. And that's going to have to be another. Authentic route that you just, you drive into the ground and you don't move on or it's like, listen, we're not going to, we're not going to do that.

And you hope that you don't ever have to compromise, um, you know, and stand strong.

Jordan Schenck: [00:27:57] And I think with being transparent on like, on your impact reporting signals, it signals exactly who you are. Like there's no. With this comment, there's no mystery on where we stand. You know, it's like, if you want to jump in and have fun with the Sunwink team, like this is what it's going to feel like and look like, and this is how we hold ourselves accountable.

This is how we behave. We know, we think about that too. On like our investors, we bring in our boards, sort of what additional, um, sort of contracts that they make with us, just from a representation standpoint, from a give back standpoint, um, And again, some of the autonomy we make around, like how we see sustainability and impact.

And that's something that we hold true and true through sort of every touch point and really consciously working to make sure those touch points are reflective of our values and what we see from what our consumers, frankly want us to stand for, which is something that like, It's really important to remember for most companies and marketers.

It's like, as a marketer, you can't put an ad campaign out that says like, Hey, we believe in people and this, this type of group. And then like that there's zero reflection in like, you know, out a board level at a leadership level. And I would even say it like who made the, the campaign itself. Right. Um, And it's like, you kind of have to fire it all.

And I think it's the most exciting challenge for marketers because it gives you so much more scope in the role to make an impact from like, what, like what does it mean to create messages now to, you know, to create value for consumers? And it's so much more than, than like performance marketing or a big brand campaign.

Um, it's sort of really in like the guts of the organization.

Adam Conner: [00:29:48] Those hardest choices often have the highest benefit, highest payoff. I guess that's, that's something for listeners to take away, you know, is there, I'm dealing with it personally right now in one specific case, is there a way, is there a situation in which you might be tempted to trade off and will you not, will you compromise with that or not?

Like, what are you going to be authentic or not? And that's not to say that, like you mustn't give in, I mean, maybe some cases you could find a compromise, but like there take, take Jordan's words here, take her story as an example. Of, you know, how the plan is to not and how the benefit will come, you know, as, as a result, um, for, for these, you know, bits of advice and learning more about some ways.

And I I'm really, I'm, I've been getting more into the sort of plant as a plan mentality myself. I'm going to keep that one for a little bit, and I'm just glad to have had your story today as another asset to it, because I've been consuming little less meat myself, personally, like. This, this host here has, has, has gotten down to, you know, probably just a couple of times a week.

And you know, with, with folks like you coming out with fantastic products, that'll help people like me. Just be more conscious. And so thanks for helping me be more conscious and thanks for joining us today. It was great to get your great to get your thoughts.

Jordan Schenck: [00:31:02] Of course. Thank you again. This is fun.

Adam Conner: [00:31:05] It seems to be a trend these past couple of podcasts I've done.

But it bears repeating, find things that you won't sacrifice, and you might find your authentic core from there. And once you have that foundation, the only thing you can do is grow it outward. And even if you do have hard choices, it might be those hard choices, which give you the biggest learnings and possibly the biggest.

Payoff. Thanks again to Jordan for coming on the show today and to you, the listener for tuning in here's how it also, you can find me LinkedIn, Adam Conner and Authentic Avenue, uh, everywhere that podcasts are available. Of course you can subscribe to the show. And finally, uh, via email adam@authave.com.

Let me know what you're thinking about the show and how I might be helpful in your content lanes. I've been. Referencing this study I've done over the past couple of weeks. I think you'll be interested as well as it relates to employee connections and content. I'll be back again next week with another fantastic story of how somebody is sticking true to their authentic journey and how you can help carve the avenues to yours until then I've been Adam Conner saying until the next time I get real again with you.

Thanks for taking a walk with me down Authentic Avenue.